Leading a city is a largely thankless job, where strangers get to insult you in public. So if you’re not excited about actually governing, this isn’t for you. Christopher Taylor is a successful lawyer, but has served as Ann Arbor’s mayor since 2014 – for peanuts – and he loves it. “In a democracy, collaboration is the key. You simply have to get buy-in. So when we make a decision, a lot of smart people have given it a lot more thought than you’d think!” He even sings in this interview – and he’s good! For info about the book or this podcast please visit our website: http://www.letthemleadbybacon.com http://www.johnubacon.com You can connect with John via these platforms: https://www.facebook.com/johnubacon https://twitter.com/Johnubacon
Leading a city is a largely thankless job, where strangers get to insult you in public. So if you’re not excited about actually governing, this isn’t for you. Christopher Taylor is a successful lawyer, but has served as Ann Arbor’s mayor since 2014 – for peanuts – and he loves it. “In a democracy, collaboration is the key. You simply have to get buy-in. So when we make a decision, a lot of smart people have given it a lot more thought than you’d think!” He even sings in this interview – and he’s good!
For info about the book or this podcast please visit our website:
http://www.letthemleadbybacon.com
You can connect with John via these platforms:
https://www.facebook.com/johnubacon
https://twitter.com/Johnubacon
LTL John_RX
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[00:00:00] John Bacon: Okay, do should I hit the closing this thing? Yes. Okay. Here we go. 3, 2, 1. Oh. Welcome back to Let Them Lead a podcast about the risks and rewards of leading today. I'm John U Bacon, the author of Let Them Lead. Unexpected lessons in leadership from America's worst high school hockey team. And as you loyal listeners know, I am not making that up, but that's not what we're here to talk about today.
[00:00:28] John Bacon: We're here to talk to Ann Arbor's own mayor, his honor. Uh, Christopher Taylor. Chris, good afternoon.
[00:00:35] Chris Taylor: Hi there. Thanks for having.
[00:00:36] John Bacon: Thank you for your time by the way, and we'll explain to the listeners shortly, uh, how little time you must have. But, so I really appreciate your, uh, your time here today, uh, unexpectedly. By the way, you have no accent that I can detect, but you are from New York City, correct?
[00:00:51] Chris Taylor: That That's right. I was, uh, I was born in New York, lived in the, lived in the area till I was nine. My parents are, are are New Yorkers. And you would, you would not have a similar, uh, a similar experience talking to them. They'd, they'd let you know.
[00:01:02] John Bacon: You got that New York accent.
[00:01:04] Chris Taylor: They do. Yeah. My mom's from the Bronx, my dad in Manhattan.
[00:01:07] Chris Taylor: It's, uh, it's the whole thing.
[00:01:08] John Bacon: Can you do the accent?
[00:01:10] Chris Taylor: Uh, you know, I, uh, I, I, I best not try.
[00:01:12] John Bacon: trying
[00:01:13] Chris Taylor: Yeah,
[00:01:14] John Bacon: for political reasons. Okay. Uh, your, uh, association with the state of Michigan at least, was through interlock in the Famous Arts Academy, which has produced countless national stars, international stars, really, uh, and singing, writing other fields as well. Uh, you are a singer by trade, which was news to me when I was going of your bio.
[00:01:32] John Bacon: Of course. Um, and then a pivotal day between your junior and senior year in high school pretty much changed your life.
[00:01:39] Chris Taylor: It, it really did. I was, uh, I was a camper at the, uh, at the, at the national music camp, at the Interlock and Art and also a, a high school student at the Interlock and. Academy and, you know, I was having my voice lesson one day and my, my teacher that summer told me to, uh, to go audition for a scholarship at the University of Michigan, which, you know, hadn't really crossed my radar at the time.
[00:01:59] Chris Taylor: Uh, and, uh, I did, and it worked out and I, I found my way at 48 1 0 4, or I suppose 48 1 0 9 as the case may be.
[00:02:07] John Bacon: 41 0 9 being U of M, of course. Yes. Uh, so I gotta ask you, can you give us a, a sample of your singing? You really can sing.
[00:02:17] Chris Taylor: Hi there. Kazi rotten. Sure.
[00:02:21] John Bacon: Awesome. There you go. Very of, of all the mayors in the state of Michigan, I think you're the best singer. There's no question. So you've got, it is entirely possible. So, uh, that's good news there. So had you ever seen U of M before you got the scholar?
[00:02:36] Chris Taylor: No,
[00:02:37] John Bacon: Wow. Uh, that's a gutsy move right there. Of course. So you moved there, of course, your freshman year.
[00:02:42] John Bacon: Um, you went into the School of Music, however, not uh uh, Alison A, which is literature science in the art, the larger college. You're on North campus studying, singing. Correct. How did you switch to what you do now?
[00:02:55] Chris Taylor: Well, uh, when I was, um, uh, I was at music school and, uh, you know, en enjoying that, but also I en ended up deciding that I. You know, I, I missed reading, right? And so in my, uh, in my June, my sophomore year, uh, at the, at the music school, I applied to L S N A also, um, and ended up. Uh, working towards and, and getting, um, an English degree at L S N A in addition to the, uh, the music degree I got through the, uh, through the School of Music.
[00:03:23] Chris Taylor: So I found my way there. And then, uh, ultimately after graduating, both those, with both, uh, both those degrees decided that, do you know how that, although I loved singing, it wasn't gonna be a career for me, uh, and I. Further into graduate school, cuz you know, what are you gonna do if, uh, if you're not quite certain.
[00:03:39] Chris Taylor: Uh, and I went into, uh, American History Graduate School. Uh, I had taken some history graduate courses, uh, one in particular with, uh, bra Bradford Perkins, who at the
[00:03:49] John Bacon: Oh
[00:03:50] Chris Taylor: was the. The graduate chair and, uh, I didn't have any history as an undergraduate to speak of, but I did well enough in the class that he advocated for me and, uh, helped me get into the PhD program on a, on a, on a sort of probationary basis, uh, over the course of the year it worked out.
[00:04:05] Chris Taylor: And then I got into the program, uh, fully, uh, the next year and develop an interest in American legal history. Uh, with that, uh, after. Passing my prelims, I decided to, you know, go to law school so that my legal history dissertation would, would have that sort of background and, and information base. And once in law school, also here at the university, came to the conclusion that I liked law a lot better than history.
[00:04:28] Chris Taylor: And was, was better at it, could find a job, could decide where I wanted to live, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so it ended up, uh, ended up there.
[00:04:36] John Bacon: There you go. Why? It was also a history major undergrad. Only though in my case,
[00:04:40] Chris Taylor: Oh, all the cool kids are.
[00:04:42] John Bacon: see, there you go. I wish they still were, by the way. It's obviously shrinking, unfortunately, but the value of it to me is immense. And I hope that catches on, uh, with undergrads still. But, uh, of course my roommates were what engineers and business school guys and so on, so they're great.
[00:04:57] John Bacon: Question was, you know, they called my, my major pre unemploy. Thank you very much. Uh, and of course they ask, you know, history major, what are you gonna do with that? And my answer always was, uh, I'm gonna join one of those large history firms in New York, which of course don't exist. Uh, but anyway, so, um, I actually have a TED talk on this.
[00:05:13] John Bacon: If you people Google that, you'll find it out there, uh, at U of M about being history major and why it matters so much. So you're after my own heart here, Chris. I can't sing a lick. Uh, but I can do history. Uh, why did you prefer the law to history?
[00:05:27] Chris Taylor: Uh, you know, the history stories are obviously, you know, like fascinating and, and really important, uh, when it comes to, you know, understanding your daily life. I felt for me though, the, that in terms of. You know, what's valued in academia? Uh, I felt like I was better at the law than I was in academia. You know, in, in, in law you have to be creative, but your, your, your creativity is cabined by, by rules and precedent and the facts.
[00:05:53] Chris Taylor: The case, uh, there's a level of sort of, um, uh, Precision, that's, that's also, uh, that's also valued. Uh, and in history, uh, certainly at the time, uh, there was, you know, a lot more theory to it. Uh, it was, it was more fluid, more flexible, uh, The questions that people were asking were not questions that, uh, that I, I felt that I could really be part of, um, that I felt like I was gonna be able to generate and play in that game, play in that sphere.
[00:06:20] Chris Taylor: And so, you know, law seemed like it was, uh, it was much better suited to my personality than at, at that point, the academic pursuit of history.
[00:06:27] John Bacon: Mm-hmm. Well, there's certainly the Logic Games aspect of it, which I've always enjoyed. I taught the LSAT for, uh, stay on the Kaplan for years, and I really love that, uh, that aspect of it. Uh, what I prefer about practicing as a historian now, uh, versus the ivory tower, of course, being a professor, uh, is the immediacy of it.
[00:06:44] John Bacon: It's gotta be out there. You have to make an argument. Um, you have to per. A few thousand people or else you can't do it for a living. So, uh, that's all part of it. But in the case, the law, of course, it's highly practical. I mean, you're putting the rubber of the road every day. Um, you were, became the editor in chief of the Michigan Law Review.
[00:07:01] John Bacon: That is a very big deal, of course. For those who are not aware of that. Um, tell us about why you pitched for that and what that experience was like and what that, how that influenced what you ended up doing today.
[00:07:13] Chris Taylor: Hmm. Yeah, that's an interesting, uh, an interesting time. So you, uh, Laura View, just for, for folks in the background, it's a student journal, uh, and oddly enough, For reasons that, uh, I never really understood it is the, you know, law reviews throughout the land or the focal point for, uh, for legal academia.
[00:07:30] Chris Taylor: Professors write articles and then the students who are on various law reviews throughout the country, uh, publish those, select and publish those articles. And that's, uh, that, you know, that's where law professors publish. Um, and it is, uh, it's a thing of prestige and, and note within, within law. I was, my grades were decent enough, but I was never gonna be particularly, um, noteworthy with respect to, with respect to my grades.
[00:07:53] Chris Taylor: And so I came to the conclusion that if I wanted to, you know, have some, uh, some schmeck when I left law school, that it was gonna be through law review
[00:08:01] John Bacon: Nice job on
[00:08:02] Chris Taylor: That's exactly right. That's what we all want, isn't it? We want a little bit of schmeck.
[00:08:05] John Bacon: Give me a little schmack, baby. The Yiddish still works around here, so I gotta love that. Chris, that's a, that's a New Yorker talking right there.
[00:08:12] Chris Taylor: So, totally. And so, you know, I, uh, I worked, you know, once I was on the law review, I kind of felt like that was gonna be my angle. Uh, I was excited about the project. I enjoyed the, the editing and the work I wrote on instead of, you know, you can get on by writing or by your grades. And I, I was able to write on unfortunately, I also, you know, was pretty intentional about the, uh, about the, my project law students are supposed to write a note, a a little mini article.
[00:08:38] Chris Taylor: Uh, and I picked an interesting topic I thought, which was Vote Dilution in the census under count, uh, and the
[00:08:45] John Bacon: that please.
[00:08:47] Chris Taylor: Sure. So, uh, The census, the decennial census. Every 10 years, the, uh, the census is run and it's an actual enumeration. People go out and they count and they send in, uh, questionnaires, and they send in responses, and we try to count everybody.
[00:09:01] Chris Taylor: But the process, uh, the process, undercounts people, people who are renters, people who are minorities, people who are, um, you know, perhaps undocumented, these folks don't show up in the, uh, in the, in the census. Too often, but they are people, they're, they're among us and, uh, they are, uh, supposed to be represented in Congress and, uh, in our state legislatures and our city councils and so forth.
[00:09:26] Chris Taylor: Um, and so, you
[00:09:28] John Bacon: and they, and they go to public schools. They use the roads, they use the infrastructure that we all use. So in other words, if we're gonna fund these things appropriately, you need to know how many people are gonna be using these things. That's the key.
[00:09:39] Chris Taylor: That's exactly right. They're valued members of the society, but they don't show up, um, in the census. And as a consequence, they're, uh, they don't show up in election districts and how election districts are calculated or allocated among the states, but even within the states, uh, allocated and districted within the states.
[00:09:56] Chris Taylor: And so my, I was going to write, I intended to write a note about this topic and then in, uh, in October, uh, of. My, of October of my, uh, second year in law school, the Supreme Court decided to hear a case on the topic, which, you know, made, gave me one of two options. Drop the thing entirely, drop the topic entirely, uh, which would, um, you know, allow the Supreme Court to sort of address the issue.
[00:10:21] Chris Taylor: Or bust a gut, complete the note and record time, and then have it be published in advance of the Supreme Court case. And, uh, since law Review was where I, my schmeck was gonna come, you know, I decided, I decided, well, I gotta, I gotta get this Cause I got to, uh, well, I, I, I need to, I need to get going. And so I, I wrote my note on Vote Dilution in the census under account, and it did get published, uh, in advance of the, uh, the Supreme Court case.
[00:10:49] Chris Taylor: Uh, and it was, uh, you know, it, it, it worked out the people who, uh, were making this election for, uh, for editor-in-chief, you know, noted my hard work and, you know, my, my general non Jack Assery, uh, and, and it worked out.
[00:11:05] John Bacon: General non Jackass re kids we're learning today. Uh,
[00:11:09] Chris Taylor: Yes. I don't think that gets you an, I don't think that gets you an e on pod on, uh, on your podcast ratings. I'm gonna keep it that way. That's as far as I'm gonna go.
[00:11:16] John Bacon: we're, we're okay. Don't worry about it. And plus we've had some others who have, uh, uh, experienced the full
[00:11:21] Chris Taylor: have not observed that. Nice.
[00:11:23] John Bacon: of, of the language. Yes. Uh, so there we go. I'm gonna get a Penn State Football on that one. But anyway, so, uh, so there you are. That gave you a taste of a few things here.
[00:11:31] John Bacon: One, uh, making a public impact. Two, of course, you're basically being a lawyer at that sense, even though you're a student, of course, you're. Basically an argument. Uh, three, of course, you're starting to get into civic leadership in a real sense. And then of course you're also, uh, president of the inter-operative council, a 550 member housing cooperative.
[00:11:52] John Bacon: Uh, that was while you were in undergrad or grad school or even law school. Did you do that?
[00:11:56] Chris Taylor: Sure. No, that's, uh, that's, that was, uh, an undergrad project. So, you know, we, um, People live all throughout, uh, uh, throughout Ann Arbor. They live in dorms other than private homes. But there's also, uh, an amazing group in, in Ann Arbor, uh, the Inter-Operative Council, which is, uh, you know, student owned student rum house housing co-op with, you know, at the time, I think it was 17.
[00:12:16] Chris Taylor: Houses big and small spread throughout the city. Uh, and it was, you know, it's owned by Stu, owned by the members, run by the students. Uh, and, uh, it was my great pleasure to live at, um, at Mini's, the Purple House on North State Street, uh, for three years and to, to serve as house president. Uh, well first, you know, you don't start off house president.
[00:12:34] Chris Taylor: You start off as ordering Steward or bathroom Stewart. Uh, and then, you know, you, you move up to house president. Then ultimately if, uh, if it works out, the president of the, uh, the organization as a whole,
[00:12:45] John Bacon: So from these things I can see traces of what you would ultimately be doing, of course, which is legal partner as well, law partner, as well as, uh, as well as Mayor Van Arbor. Um, so these impulses were in you from the early on, it seems like early, early going.
[00:13:00] Chris Taylor: Yeah. You know, I've always, uh, you know, I en I enjoy, I enjoy participation. Uh, you know, I enjoy getting involved in, uh, in organizations that, that, that animate me. Uh, and. It's, uh, it's important that we do that. You know, these, these things don't, don't run themselves. They don't, uh, they don't grow themselves.
[00:13:18] Chris Taylor: They don't, you know, move forward. They don't serve the members themselves. And it's, uh, it's important to when you, uh, find a place that has meaning for you, that you try to, you know, support it and help make it better.
[00:13:30] John Bacon: Well, one thing y'all learn from me in my twenties, uh, that a city itself, a community state, a nation, certainly, that it's not a matter of people, okay? Abiding by the law. Working hard paying taxes. It has to be more than that for the whole thing to work. And this is where Hillary, Hillary Clinton was undeniably true.
[00:13:47] John Bacon: It takes a village to raise a kid. It takes people who do far more than are acquired by law for these institutions to work for little league baseball, to work for the city, to work for the community to work and so on. You had that impulse very early on in your life it seems like. And of course from there you go on to your fourth degree, so you got an undergrad.
[00:14:05] John Bacon: In singing performance of course. And English. You've got a master's in history, if I have that right. Um, also a PhD in history.
[00:14:14] Chris Taylor: No, I, I, uh, I, I, the, the PhD, different PhD is a, is a, never was. So I'm, I'm a, b, D in American history, uh, and got my, got my JD in 97.
[00:14:25] John Bacon: And jd, so they're your four degrees somewhere in there. Do I have that
[00:14:28] Chris Taylor: right. My, my my, my, my, uh, my music degree, my English degree, my master's in, in history along the way. And then the JD.
[00:14:35] John Bacon: There we go. Uh, you become ultimately a partner at Hooper Hathaway, a well-known law firm here in the state of Michigan, and I think perhaps nationally, but I'm not sure,
[00:14:46] Chris Taylor: Well, you know, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll take whatever logs I logs you. Uh, you'll, you're, you're happy to gimme I'll, uh, I'll, I'll stick with We're well known in town. How's that?
[00:14:54] John Bacon: There we go. Well known in town and right downtown of course is how we met, uh, years ago, of course. But, uh, so interesting work. What is your specialty at Hooper Hathaway?
[00:15:04] Chris Taylor: Yeah, I do, I do mostly small business work and estate planning. So, uh, you know, along the way I, you know, you have to come to some decision about whether you're gonna be, you know, what sort of law you're gonna practice, uh, and, you know, what, uh, what type of law is suited for you? Uh, you know, I decided, uh, although I.
[00:15:21] Chris Taylor: Did enjoy the, um, uh, the, the, the argument, the thi the legal thinking and the creativity behind litigation, that the, uh, the fight of it all was not something that I'm really interested in. Uh, and so I ended up shifting and now at, uh, at Hooper Hathaway, I do mostly small business, representational, you know, local companies here and there.
[00:15:41] Chris Taylor: Uh, and then, uh, and then estate. So, you know, I, uh, which is a, a facet that, uh, I never envisioned myself working on, but I, I've really just come to value. It is, uh, it's, it's intimate. You talk with folks about, you know, their families, you know, their, their personalities, their relationships. Uh, and you know how, you know, parents are trying to, you know, make it better for their kids, how kids need to, you know, think about how they can help their, their parents as they age.
[00:16:07] Chris Taylor: It's, um, it's a practice that involves getting to know people, uh, and, and doing what you can to help 'em and help them think through the issues that, uh, that, uh, that confront them.
[00:16:19] John Bacon: And with that, naturally you have some uncomfortable conversations here and there. And I know this because my parents are 90 and 87. They just moved into Balfour Senior living voluntarily, quite, and they're very happy there. Uh, but we, you know, they retained obviously an estate lawyer and, uh, we've gone through this whole process and it all worked out very f you know, ultimately very well.
[00:16:38] John Bacon: Uh, You have to talk, talk about things that people don't like talking about very much, including death itself. Uh, what do people not understand about estate planning that you do?
[00:16:49] Chris Taylor: Oh, that's a great question. Um, you know, people. In the end, it's. People need to under, you know what, what, what I do as an estate lawyer, um, is I try to, you know, learn about the, uh, the, the family, uh, and the, the, the hopes and the, the plans for the, uh, of the client. Um, and, you know, their, the relationship and the, the skills and, uh, and abilities, uh, and characters of with within, within their family, within their, uh, their beneficiary.
[00:17:26] Chris Taylor: And, you know, estate planning is, is all about trying to find a way so that the, the assets, um, of the, you know, the client, you know, typically in this context, the, the set, the parent or set of parents, um, How that can be used, uh, for, uh, you know, to, to advance their goals, to advance, you know, in many respects, they, you know, their, their beneficiaries, how the beneficiaries are best suited to, you know, to take those, uh, those assets in, take tho that money in if they can.
[00:17:54] Chris Taylor: Um, and ultimately to, to, uh, do that in a way that, you know, that enables the, the client to, uh, You know, live the rest of their life in, uh, in, in, in whatever comfort and peace they can, they, they can obtain. Uh, it's, uh, I think what people don't always understand is it how, how really personal it is, how much, you know, getting your plan in order is really about, you know, communicating to your attorney, uh, you know, Sure the pile, this pile of stuff that you have.
[00:18:21] Chris Taylor: But more importantly, you know, the family that you have, um, the, uh, their personalities, their abilities, uh, their inter workings and relationships. And then trying to get the, get, get a plan in place that meets those, meets those uh, conditions.
[00:18:36] John Bacon: Have, what has been eye-opening for you personally? In other words, do you see aging differently? Do you see your legacy differently? Have you lived your life differently by talking to people who are, in many cases, getting near the end of their lives? Uh, what wisdom have you gained from that process?
[00:18:53] Chris Taylor: Yeah.
[00:18:54] John Bacon: if one does gain wisdom from this through estate planning, I'm not sure,
[00:18:57] Chris Taylor: Yeah. I don't know. That's a good question. Uh, you know, people come to the, uh, People come for, you know, for, for estate planning, it's, you know, it's, it's not just 80 year olds that show up, right. I mean, you know, you get a lot of, a lot of younger families and mid, and families in their mid cycle who, you know, realize that they need to, um, you know, process this unwelcome, uh, possibility.
[00:19:23] Chris Taylor: Uh, in some cases it's an imminent likelihood, but in most cases it's, it's, it's kind of theoretical. It's kind of out there, but they need to, you know, Put their, put, put their lives in some perspective in this one small context and, and, and, and devise a plan that's gonna work if they're not there to help make it work.
[00:19:42] Chris Taylor: And, you know, I think it does, you knows incline one to, you know, do a little bit more, planning themselves to take a little bit of critical distance about the, uh, about the work you do and to try to make sure that you know, you're, uh, uh, you know, you're, you're. Financial hygiene is, uh, is the way it ought to be.
[00:20:05] John Bacon: Financial hygiene. Uh, yes, my wife and I have worked on this as well. Thanks. Thanks. Being late starters with a seven year old kid, of course we have to think about this stuff.
[00:20:13] Chris Taylor: Yeah. That's right.
[00:20:14] John Bacon: and uh, and as you might be aware, death is in fact undefeated. So it's,
[00:20:19] Chris Taylor: it is. You know, none of us are gonna get outta this alive.
[00:20:22] John Bacon: That's the sad fact. So that's in the list as well.
[00:20:25] John Bacon: Somewhere along the line it occurs to you to run for City Council of Ann Arbor, and then of course run for mayor. Where did that impulse come from and where did that time come from? You and Ava? I've got two kids, and of course they were in grade school when you started this path, I believe. Um, and, you know, that's, these are all consuming things and being a partner at all law of firms is a consuming thing.
[00:20:45] John Bacon: So where'd you find the, where'd you find the impulse and where'd you find the time to make public life possible?
[00:20:52] Chris Taylor: I, uh, I had, I've, I've always liked government, uh, and it's al it's always fascinated me, you know, uh, in, uh, Back in the back in history, uh, when I was, you know, reading, uh, and studying American history, while I, you know, I, I know and understand and, and, and fully with my heart, acknowledge that social history and intellectual history and, uh, and all, all, you know, all manner of cultural, cultural histories and studies are, are important and, uh, and, and crucial for us to understand.
[00:21:19] Chris Taylor: I was still a little bit, you know, I just had a little bit, a bit of political history vibe. To me it just was what, you know, what, what? What, what, you know, it's where I was drawn. And so that kind of got me to legal history. So I've always liked government, but I still, even though I had some leadership positions, as you've identified, never really pictured myself participating in it.
[00:21:39] Chris Taylor: And, and I don't quite know why. Um, it just was, I, I sort of had this notion how the, the world worked. Uh, how, you know, I thought. You know, it was much more of a, uh, sort of a caucus party system where you get tapped by this sort of unknown group of people and, and, and it, it just, uh, well, so I, I just didn't imagine myself doing it.
[00:22:01] Chris Taylor: And then I was, you know, literally having, uh, having brunch at a friend's house one day, uh, March of. Speaking of, you know, sort of serendipitous, timely events like my, uh, my vo voice lesson back in my junior year, I was having brunch at a friend's house in March of 2008. And we got to talking about state politics and, and national politics.
[00:22:22] Chris Taylor: And he said, you know, well, why don't you run adversity council? You should do that. And, uh, I told him for, you know, all the reasons why I couldn't do that. And he said, you know, all those reasons are stupid.
[00:22:35] John Bacon: Thank you very much.
[00:22:37] Chris Taylor: Yeah. Uh, so you, you know, and you, you mentioned Burns Park players, and he said, so Christopher, let me, let me, let me get, let me ask you a question. Um, does it, does uh, does anybody know you in the neighborhood? Uh, and I say, well, well, yeah, I've been leading the Burns Park musical for the past couple of years.
[00:22:53] Chris Taylor: And he say, okay, so people know you. Um, Do they, you know, have you been a jerk during that time? Uh, it's like, no, no, no, I'm not, I'm not really a jerk. People, you know, people seem to, you know, like me for the most part. Uh, do you know that, uh, you know, the, the area where, where, you know, the Burns Park, you know, uh, generally speaking, you know, it comprises like 40% of the Democratic primary vote in, uh, in the election.
[00:23:16] Chris Taylor: It's like, oh no, I had no idea. I was like, yeah, you didn't, did you? Well, And so, you know, here are a couple reasons why, you know, if you chose to, why. And so then he talked a little bit also about why, you know, I, it might be good for me to do it, why I might like it. And said, you know, and if you can, if you want to, You know, you'll be able to, because you know, you do have, you know, you have a network that you never knew you had, uh, in the, in the musical.
[00:23:39] Chris Taylor: Like you have a, um, a you, you happen, you're locked into a, a physical space where, you know, people happen to vote in great numbers and you know, you'll be a, when you go knock on doors, people will like to talk to you. So if this is a thing that you'd like to do, you know, you can do it. And, and you know, I know and a couple of pals I know will help.
[00:23:59] Chris Taylor: Um, but you gotta act soon. Cause the. Nominating petition signatures are due in four weeks.
[00:24:07] John Bacon: Wow. So we're, we're back to the, we're back to the LAR view. Either you're gonna bust a gut and get this thing done, uh, or you can watch the train go by.
[00:24:15] Chris Taylor: that's right. And so, you know, I got my, uh, you know, I got put down the voices in your head that tell you that this is never gonna work. And you know, Decided, okay, fine, I'm gonna do it. And so I went out and got my signatures and was on the ballot. And then, you know, learned how, learned how to run a local campaign with the, with the help of PALS over the next couple of months and knocked, uh, you know, you know, however many doors I knocked over the next four months and won the primary and there it was.
[00:24:43] John Bacon: So you're on city, the council,
[00:24:45] Chris Taylor: So on city council? Yes. 2008. And so, you know, was on city council then for six.
[00:24:50] John Bacon: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:50] Chris Taylor: Uh, and, you know, that was, uh, I, I enjoyed those immensely. You know, it's, uh, city council is, uh, and local government generally is, it's fascinating work. Um, you know, in, in Ann Arbor, we, uh, you know, we're not professionals, right?
[00:25:05] Chris Taylor: We're just, you know, people that, you know, knocked enough doors to get elected. And, uh, running a city is, uh, is, is intricate and complicated and. It's just fascinating. It's it, and I, you know, I can, I, I I still never, I, I just love the learning and, you
[00:25:21] John Bacon: and what did you learn? What'd you learn as a city council member about your city that you've lived in at that point for a couple decades? What'd you learn about it that you didn't know before?
[00:25:31] Chris Taylor: yeah, that's, well, so I ended up, uh, so two thi two things. The, the, the one sort of broad structural thing is it's all about water. You know,
[00:25:39] John Bacon: Wow. Really, really?
[00:25:41] Chris Taylor: coming in, water coming out, water falling down. Everything's about water. Uh, you know, it, it's deck, it's just so many systems related to water.
[00:25:49] Chris Taylor: But the one thing that I did learn, when you sit, when you, uh, when you come on city council, you are, you, you land on various boards and commissions as part of your duties. It's not just the two meetings a month. You've got some subcommittees, uh, you've got boards and commissions. And I was fortunate enough to be.
[00:26:06] Chris Taylor: Slated for the Parks Advisory Commission.
[00:26:09] John Bacon: Ah.
[00:26:09] Chris Taylor: and so I'm on the Parks Advisory Commission and the first thing, uh, my first meeting, they get to talking about, uh, you know, spending, you know, I don't know, I can't, I can't remember exactly, but, you know, so we're gonna spend a couple hundred thousand dollars, uh, on, uh, on a DISC golf course in, I think this was in Band Damir.
[00:26:29] Chris Taylor: And.
[00:26:30] John Bacon: Mm-hmm. And by the way, for you, non Ann Arbor rights, this thing goes internationally. Burns Park is probably the most famous neighborhood of Ann Arbor's 54 or so. It's where the professors often live. Bandy Mayor Park is not too far from downtown. It's on the river. It's very close to my home, actually. So continue on the disk Gulf.
[00:26:46] John Bacon: Sorry.
[00:26:47] Chris Taylor: right. Yeah, so, so the couple hundred thousand dollars, we're gonna put in a disc golf course here, and you. I don't know. I would never have done this now, but I, I had something to say about it and, you know, like I said, I'm, I'm not a jerk, but I wasn't a jerk about it, but I expressed a measure of skepticism, um, about the, the value cuz and then like basically, uh, you can picture a scene when like you're talking around a table and somebody says something that's like, like record scratch and everybody ducks.
[00:27:13] Chris Taylor: Um, and so that's what happened. That's kinda what happened here. They're like, oh, don't. Don't say that. The disc golf people will come. You don't know how many people love disc golf. It's like everybody plays. They love it. It is gonna be like, and then it's like, oh, I've got a lot to learn.
[00:27:33] John Bacon: But I gotta say, I mean, I recall as a
[00:27:35] Chris Taylor: They're a world,
[00:27:37] John Bacon: right in Ann Arbor.
[00:27:38] Chris Taylor: a world that you can't imagine.
[00:27:40] John Bacon: there you go.
[00:27:42] Chris Taylor: I now love playing disc golf. Disc golf is great. Uh, but it's not something that had ever crossed my mind or path before. And so, I learned, I learned about disc golf my first, first meeting out.
[00:27:54] John Bacon: Uh, I recall the ninth grader in Ann Arbor. We took civics and we had a great, uh, program with Ms. Davis who's still around, uh, about the city budget. Spent about two or three weeks and we explored it individually. And of course I was already playing a little bit of golf at Leslie Park and here on Hills and so on.
[00:28:09] John Bacon: And, uh, I, I mean, it never occurred to me. This stuff all costs money. These are decisions made by people who run this city and they've chosen to spend, you know, half million dollars or much more profit even then, uh, on these golf courses. And that's why I get to play golf on Saturday at these two places.
[00:28:23] John Bacon: Um, and all these things kind of break down from there. And Vets Park where I play hockey, that's now enclosed. And that costs money too, and that's what it all looks like. So I, I discovered at age 14 this stuff costs money. People make decisions, and, and of course, even for disc golf, 200,000 sounds like a whole hell of.
[00:28:40] John Bacon: Uh, when you first look at it. Um, and then of course you open your mouth and discover that, uh, you're about get run over by the, uh, disc golf mafia.
[00:28:48] Chris Taylor: For the disco golf lobby.
[00:28:49] John Bacon: Yeah. Don't, you don't wanna fight big disc golf. That's don't,
[00:28:54] Chris Taylor: You That's exact. That's what I learned.
[00:28:58] John Bacon: That's what I learned. So one thing you learned is all the stuff in the city is attached to a constituency that cares about it.
[00:29:04] John Bacon: A great deal.
[00:29:06] Chris Taylor: Yeah, that's right. I mean, there, there are, there, there's, there's even, you know, Ann Arbor, it's a, you know, small town as far as it goes, but it's, uh, it's still just, uh, constantly surprising.
[00:29:16] John Bacon: Uh, there you go. So on this front, uh, both from the legal career history, uh, three careers history, career, legal career, and of course the, uh, city government career, uh, who were your mentors along the way and what did they teach you?
[00:29:29] Chris Taylor: Hmm, uh, well, you know, it's, uh, in the, uh, on, on the city side. You know, you learn from you, you, uh, you learn from watching in many respects. Right. Um, and I guess on the city side, you know, primarily, uh, you know, I learned from the, the, the mayor performing, you know, mayor Hek,
[00:29:49] John Bacon: Right, John Heftier.
[00:29:51] Chris Taylor: Yeah, John Heath to as mayor, when I came onto city council in 2008, he, you know, after 14 years, decided that that was just about enough, uh, in 2014.
[00:30:01] Chris Taylor: And, you know, then after he decided to step down, that's when I, uh, ran for mayor and was, was fortunate enough to be elected. And I think from, uh, You know, from him, you, uh, you learn a couple of different things from watching him, uh, from, from watching you learn, of course, about, uh, you know, he, he valued environmentalism and that was in line with, with, with my thinking, uh, and, and posture.
[00:30:23] Chris Taylor: He, he valued, uh, you know, a city and reco and recognizing the, the need for growth. And so I also, you know, understood and recognized and learned, and learned that. But, uh, he had sort of a, a, a positive critical distance from the project. You know, you, you, you have to. I don't know if you know this, uh, John, but not everybody's gonna agree with you, uh, when you're, when you're working in local government
[00:30:47] John Bacon: I have, I've never encountered that myself, obviously in writing. But, uh, I'm curious about your experience.
[00:30:53] Chris Taylor: And, uh, and not everything that you think is a good idea. Well, first of off is a good idea, but that's a whole separate question. Um, not everything that you think is a good idea is gonna actually happen, and there are gonna be people who want to do something different and, uh, You just have to kind of, uh, accept that and not let it bother you and, and, you know, getting to that point.
[00:31:15] John Bacon: go ahead. Sorry.
[00:31:16] Chris Taylor: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just, you know, getting, getting to that, uh, getting to that place, you know, in incorporating the Serenity Prayer into your, uh, you know, your, your governance, uh, strategy, your governance theory is, uh, well, it's an important part of, uh, you know, living, I think generally, but certainly gov, you know, working, working in city.
[00:31:35] John Bacon: That is fascinating. Um, that. To do this job and do it well. And you've won reelection more than once. Of course. So since 2014, um, again recently, this summer, I believe of course, um, that, uh, that you have to distance yourself from some of the responses. If you take this stuff too personally, you simply can't do this kind of work.
[00:31:57] John Bacon: And one thing I say when I give speeches in this, I was in Green Bay in Florida the last week, two different places, of course, about leadership. I once talked to a beekeeper and I said, you ever get. And he said, plumbers get wet. Beekeepers get stung. If you don't like wet, if you don't like water, don't be a plumber.
[00:32:14] John Bacon: If you don't like bees and you're afraid to get stung, don't be a beekeeper. If you cannot stand criticism, do not get into leadership in your company, in your organization, uh, little League Baseball or the City of Ann Arbor because you're going to get criticized by people you don't know. And one of the great lines I heard from a friend of mine who ran for Regent and got it at the University of Michigan is, lemme get this.
[00:32:34] John Bacon: I'm gonna spend my own money. So people I don't know can criticize me in public. Do I have that right? And that's, that is now part of the equation. And how much has social media impacted the quality of life for city leaders as well as how you get your work done?
[00:32:51] Chris Taylor: You know, I, I tend to, well, quality of life. Social medias can, you know, it, it all depends on what you bring to it. I mean, it, uh, to some degree it only exists if it exists in your, in your life. You know, uh, Instagram exists. I'm not on Instagram, and so all the hoo-ha on Instagram, part of my life. I don't know. Uh, I don't really, you know, I lurk on Twitter now and again, but I don't really, you know, I don't really post.
[00:33:21] Chris Taylor: And so all the hoo-ha on. Not really part of my life, you know, Facebook, I'll talk a little bit about, you know, some of the work we're doing, but I'm just, I'm just not gonna get involved in criticizing people on it and saying, you know, talking about other folks. And so, you know, it's, that's sort of, uh, the turmoil of it.
[00:33:41] Chris Taylor: Uh, the, the, the, the snarkyness. That's just, that's just not part of, uh, my, my vibe and it's just not part of my governing experience cuz I try to stay out of it. Um,
[00:33:53] John Bacon: by the way, that that's as simple and difficult and genius. Ignore it. And don't participate. Once you're, once you have to dive in, then you're part of the discussion. So
[00:34:02] Chris Taylor: Yeah,
[00:34:02] John Bacon: that. That's good advice,
[00:34:04] Chris Taylor: who has like, you know, the, the old cartoon, you know, you know, I can't come to bed right now. Somebody's wrong on the internet. You know, you. just can't fix everything. Um, and you know, now, now that's, that's one way of that I, you know, like sometimes when talking with folks about it, you know, that's, uh, it's, it's both highly, uh, it's highly adaptive, but it's also debilitating because, uh, It reduces my communication with people.
[00:34:32] Chris Taylor: Um, you know, because there are, there are some instances with, through social media and elsewhere where, you know, there, there is an opportunity for, for real discussion about something. And it is important, you know, as the, as mayor, I have, uh, a perspective that is useful and typically, um,
[00:34:48] John Bacon: Knowledgeable,
[00:34:49] Chris Taylor: well inform, well informed, uh, and, you know, it's, it's good for the mayor to, to communicate and, and I do work to communicate.
[00:34:58] Chris Taylor: Um, and it's good to meet people where they are. Uh, and I try to find that balance. I tend to earn on the side of, um, you know, of, uh, uh, you know, I tend to err on the side of non-engagement with, with, uh, With, with arguments and contests online, but you know, I, I recognize that there's a, there, there, there is a place, there is a place for that kind of communication.
[00:35:23] Chris Taylor: Uh, I'm just not temperamentally up for it sometimes.
[00:35:26] John Bacon: There we go. Uh, in your career now, eight years, nine years running, uh, as mayor of Ann Arbor, of course it's the water you already mentioned. And by the way, that's fascinating that it's all about the water. I would never have guessed that. Uh, you're of course involved in the parks, the roads, naturally. Uh, it's the Midwest, so we have.
[00:35:43] John Bacon: Cold winters, hot summers and roads break down. So I see construction everywhere these days, which is a good sign. Um, and of course affordable housing. The list goes on and on. Um, what do you think the average voter, the average citizen in any town in America, uh, would not guess about municipal government that, as you've seen it, what is the surprise to you?
[00:36:04] Chris Taylor: Uh,
[00:36:06] John Bacon: If you could educate us on two or three things, what would they be?
[00:36:09] Chris Taylor: You know, I guess I, without particularity, uh, so there are a couple of, if, if, maybe I'll, I'll reframe that slightly. If I could change, like, sort of one thing about people's perception and thoughts and thinking about local government. You know, some, it will, it will often be the case where, uh, you know, you'll, you'll see something.
[00:36:30] Chris Taylor: There'll be some, some road will be fixed this way or there'll be some, some plan or policy that way and be like, oh, what are they doing on their foot? Why are they doing? Um, and the real question is why are they doing that? Um, because. So often, and this is, you know, because, you know, I I, you show up as an elected official, you know, in 2000 8, 9, 10, and so forth, all the way up through 22.
[00:36:54] Chris Taylor: And like, you know, I listen to folks and they, people have ideas that they bring to me, and I have ideas that I bring to staff and, uh, you know, about some, some issue or some policy or some practice that, that, uh, that warrant's changing, um, or, or could warrant changing. And so I ask about it and there is so much thought and expertise that goes into almost everything.
[00:37:16] Chris Taylor: And the, the, the, the, the, the, the way things are are, um, you know, subject of course to all the human foibles and failures. But, uh, but, but things are really, know places that are well run, you know, really try to think through their, think through. Uh, Local issues carefully. They think through, um, why the, we are doing these things, we are ordering these things in this way for, for a real reason.
[00:37:46] Chris Taylor: Um, and, you know, it may be, uh, well it may be a good reason. Uh, it may be, you know, very sta for example, safety specific. Um, and, and, you know, be the result of engineering expertise. It may be. You know, vestigial because, you know, some council in, in, you know, 2004 passed some policy that has, you know, an unexpected consequence now that just hasn't been fixed.
[00:38:09] Chris Taylor: But, uh, you know, order of operations requires that the policy be followed. But bottom line is that, that, you know, I would, uh, encourage people to, uh, to, to, you know, approach, uh, approach local government with, uh, with sort of. Expecting that there's some thought to the, to the wa, to the, the present condition that we got here for a reason.
[00:38:31] Chris Taylor: The reason might not be awesome and it might not hold true in the future, but that we're here because of some thought process and let's try to figure that out and utilize that, that current condition, that that thought process to see if we can improve.
[00:38:44] John Bacon: That's very well said. Of course, that these decisions are not willy-nilly. A lot of thought goes into them, and of course, not that many people necessarily go to a city council meeting. Obviously people do, but not the, the whole city doesn't, and they don't all tune in, so they don't always know. What the process was, which is usually pretty transparent, uh, certainly in Ann Arbor.
[00:39:02] John Bacon: It is. So those are all good factors. What I find in my line of work, of course, which is, you know, public speaking radio, tv and books and whatnot, um, is a high level of cynicism. Now, the vast majority of what I get on Twitter and Facebook is 97, 90 8% positive, which is makes me a very lucky writer to say the least.
[00:39:19] John Bacon: Uh, so I'm grateful for that. But you still, I, I'm amazed at the level of cynicism, uh, you know, this is all for. I don't get paid for cliques. What do I care? Um, it's amazing. And you hear about, you know, corrupt journalism. I, I see lazy journalism, frankly, too often. Uh, but I almost never see corrupted journalism.
[00:39:37] John Bacon: It's, the corruption is quite rare, to say the least. So I think the same thing as twin city government. That's almost never, there's some, there's not some backroom deal. It's you did, you don't like the decision, and I get that. But that's, you know, that's not how it came about. So what is the best day as the mayor, and what is your worst day as a.
[00:39:55] Chris Taylor: Hmm. You mean as a general matter?
[00:39:58] John Bacon: As a general matter and or a specific, a specific one if you have them.
[00:40:02] Chris Taylor: Yeah. Well, you know, I guess, uh, my, um, well, my worst day is easy, you know, uh, in Ann Arbor, uh, my, my, my worst day was, was my first day, uh, you know, uh, the, my, uh, I, uh, was sworn in, uh, in, in November, 2000, uh, eight, uh, no, pardon, 2000, no, November, 2014. Um, and you know, my. Uh, walked up, you know, my family was there.
[00:40:31] Chris Taylor: I got sworn into the clerk's office, walked up to show 'em the office, and uh, and the city administrator was sitting with the chief of police in the city administrator's office. And, uh, you know, they saw the, the group of us walk by and they kind of motioned me in, told me to close the door. And, uh, oh, mercy, uh, told me to close the door and.
[00:40:52] Chris Taylor: You know, that was the day, uh, you know, we learned about the, the killing of a Rosser, you know, the death of a Rosser in our community. Um, and so that was, uh, that was the hardest day, uh, in the, uh, that I've had as mayor. Um, it was incredibly difficult for, uh, for so many, uh, and, and, and Don going and it has, uh, you know, no, that was, that was, that was a difficult day.
[00:41:15] John Bacon: That would do
[00:41:16] Chris Taylor: Uh, yeah, it was. Um, and also you. It's my first day and I was unequipped. Um,
[00:41:22] John Bacon: Who? Who can be equipped for that,
[00:41:24] Chris Taylor: it's my job, but nevertheless, um, you know, uh, the best day. Well, that's easy. Whenever, whenever I go into an elementary school,
[00:41:33] John Bacon: Not really.
[00:41:36] Chris Taylor: I mean, uh, you know, everybody, uh, you know, uh, elementary, every elementary students, they, they. You can be a senator, you can, you know, you can be a, you know, you can out rank me from here to here to forever, but, you know, they know they're mayor and, uh, you know, the mayor is part of their town and they, they dig the mayor.
[00:41:52] John Bacon: Mm-hmm. I love
[00:41:53] Chris Taylor: that aside, I just also, you know, anytime I get to work with, with people, like one of the, the, the, the thing that keeps me coming back is, you know, working with, uh, with residents, working with, uh, with, uh, council members and colleagues and working with staff, uh, on. On, on projects of common, common purpose.
[00:42:14] Chris Taylor: Um, there are so many people who you, who know so much from whom I can learn, who are excited about the things that we can do, like I am, uh, at, at the city, whether it's with our, with a 20 zero or improving, you know, affordable housing, uh, or, you know, making sure our, you know, Parks are beautiful, all these things.
[00:42:31] Chris Taylor: Um, and they're people devoted to these issues and, you know, it's just exciting to, you know, come to, uh, come to Zoom or come to City Hall or wherever. Uh, and to be able to, you know, to, to work with them on this, their, their enthusiasm and expertise, you know, their enthusiasm is infectious, their expertise is illuminating.
[00:42:48] Chris Taylor: Uh, and, you know, the result, uh, the results.
[00:42:52] John Bacon: This conversation makes me much more optimistic about city government in general, which. I'm very happy with here in Arbor. I must say that before all this, uh, but just all the thinking that goes into it and. Surprisingly positive spirit, I would guess I would say, because again, we get cynical too often.
[00:43:07] John Bacon: So this is illuminating for me as well. So I'm gonna close with two things. Uh, one is the, I always do this, the, the three main points I'm pulling out of this, um, one, um, be willing to take a chance. That's your scholarship singing opportunity on a random Tuesday at Interlochen as a probably a 16 or 17 year old kid.
[00:43:26] John Bacon: Well, that results you being the mayor for nine, 10 plus years. So, uh, as well as a, uh, of course law firm partner. So be willing to take a chance when someone opens the door for you, walk through it and see what happens. I like that. Uh, two related to that I would say is seize the opportunity Your. Article, of course, on, uh, on the census, uh, resulted in all kinds of things that happened afterwards, including editor-in-chief of the Law Review.
[00:43:50] John Bacon: But that's because you had a chance. You realize, okay, I got a few weeks here to, to really swallow this one or walk away and you swallowed it. And how long did it take you? Two or three weeks. It probably changed your life. So that's pretty cool too. And uh, the last thing about trying out for city council.
[00:44:07] John Bacon: Put down the voices in your head that say you can't do this and it's not going to work. We all have those doubts. They're bound to crop up and you just gotta push 'em aside. So I love that as well. Last question is, who was your favorite teacher and why?
[00:44:22] Chris Taylor: Ah, uh, so my favorite teacher.
[00:44:26] John Bacon: teacher?
[00:44:27] Chris Taylor: my favorite teacher is Mr. Hints. Uh, so, you know, this is at the, uh, at the Interlock and Arts Academy. Uh, so I went to the Interlocking Arts Academy for my, my last two years of high school, junior, senior year. Uh, and Mr. Hints, uh, who, you know, Hawkeye fan, so, you know, mostly a good guy, um,
[00:44:44] John Bacon: Uh, I Iowa? That is correct.
[00:44:46] Chris Taylor: Yes, that's correct.
[00:44:47] Chris Taylor: Uh, an English teacher of, uh, of long standing. I think he, he was, you know, at that point, he was, you know, 20, 30, 30 years. He was, he came at the second year of the, uh, of the academy and had been there ever since. Um, and was, um, uh, a, a kind and thoughtful man, uh, encouraging, uh, uh, Who took just great delight in, uh, in, in his students.
[00:45:11] Chris Taylor: You know, he just, he knew how to bring out the best in you. He knew how to, and it's a boarding school. And so, you know, it's a, it's a, it's, it's its own unique thing. Uh, you get to know your teachers, you know, even more So, uh, the teacher has to, you know, keep an eye out for kids who are, you know, going through hard times has to, you know, have a, a.
[00:45:31] Chris Taylor: Like I said, just be, be encouraging and challenging. Uh, and, and he was all those things and more. And, uh, he, um, well he was, he was just tremendous.
[00:45:40] John Bacon: Well, that's how
[00:45:41] Chris Taylor: Howard Hintz. Thank
[00:45:42] John Bacon: how your, uh, music degree of course becomes also an English degree, which leads to law school and all the rest. So, Mr. Hintz, fingerprints are all over your career naturally. So, uh, quick question was Mr. Was Mr. Hintz easy?
[00:45:54] Chris Taylor: Uh, No, he was not, uh, you know, he was, uh, he was challenging in all the right ways. You know, you, you were, well, not only that, but, uh, you know, you worked hardest for him because, uh, because you were, you were excited to, uh, to, you were excited to, uh, to make him pleased. You know, you, you, you, you want, you, you want, you wanted to be your best in his.
[00:46:21] John Bacon: That's when leadership works best. It's not yelling and screaming, it's students who respect you so much that you refuse to let them down. And that was, that was your dynamic there, obviously. So, Chris, this has been a wonderful conversation. I have learned a ton. I've learned a bit about law school. I went to law school for 24 hours.
[00:46:37] John Bacon: That's my record. Uh, but I learned a whole lot about city government, how it actually works. And I come away much more reassured, uh, than I would've been otherwise. Not that I was fearful, ofor city. Uh, but it really is reassuring to see how it actually works. And of course, transparency is all part of that.
[00:46:53] John Bacon: So I appreciate greatly, uh, your contributions here today and your honest and uh, clear voice. And also, by the way, since I voted for you repeatedly, I appreciate you being the mayor of my town. So thank you for that. Also,
[00:47:06] Chris Taylor: you're a gentleman of discernment. Well, I, well, yeah. This has been, I've been. Yes, that's right. Well, I've been delighted by the conversation too. And you know, I'm, uh, local government is just, you know, we're, it, it's all run by people, right? So it's gonna be imperfect, but, uh, but you know, Ann Arbor staff, they are just, ugh.
[00:47:24] Chris Taylor: They, they're, they're there to do the right thing. They're there to work hard. They understand their mission and their goal, and they understand they're here for the, the community members, city council, you know, it's, uh, For, for all our foibles, I think too are, are looking in the same direction and it's, um, yeah, there's a lot that we can do here and I'm just, uh, I'm just excited to work them.
[00:47:42] Chris Taylor: I'm excited to work with residents too, who are, uh, you know, You know, who love their town. You know, one thing we noticed when we, we lived out east for a little while, and, you know, people would, uh, you know, on the weekends go out to the Cape and it's sort of, you know, if you feel like, oh, like this place has emptied out this, it doesn't have anything here, here, but in Ann Arb, you know, people are focused on Ann Arbor.
[00:47:59] Chris Taylor: They wanna make it better, they wanna work together. And, uh, it's just really exciting and, and gratifying to be a part of it. And so, you know, for that project, I'm, I'm grateful
[00:48:08] John Bacon: I love that
[00:48:09] Chris Taylor: and, and for this conversation too, I'm grateful, you know, it's all, it's always, it's always nice to talk to you.
[00:48:13] John Bacon: Well, you're very kind, and by the way, you've done such a good, good job in this city that, uh, well, we like going up north like a lot of Ann AITs do in the summertime, but there's so much going on in Ann Arbor, including top of the park, the summer festival, you name it, art Fair and so on, that you can't be gone for too long without missing out.
[00:48:29] John Bacon: And I, I love this town for that reason. So, uh, for a lot of reasons, of course, but that's among them. So Christopher, thank you so much for all your time. My guest has been, Christopher Taylor, his honor himself, the mayor of Ann Arbor since 2008. I appreciate your time. You have been listening to Let Them Lead a podcast about the risks and rewards of leading today.
[00:48:48] John Bacon: And please subscribe. Please tell your friends and spread the word and we'll be back for more after this break. Thank you very much. You did it pal there.
[00:48:59] Chris Taylor: if, if, if true is only because you were leading me,
[00:49:02] John Bacon: Well, how about that There.